(Psyche and psychology is such a loaded ideological term.)
As a former grad student in theology, the history of theological education can be broken up into two genres: theology (as a philosophic-intellectual …
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/rape-allegations-rock-australia-s-parliament-thousands-women-say-enough-n1261277 Within the Patriarchy that is our…
— what an amazing post! So good!!
just read it. I am not fully knowledgeable about everything that is said in this post, it’s veracity, so if anyone else reads this and finds some blatant exaggerations or outright untruths, please let us know.
The only comment I’m gonna make really has nothing to do with the actual contents of the post. i’m going to comment on one sentence: that the holy inquisition lasted 600 years. just in a quick Internet search of “holy inquisition”, since I really am not Very educated about it, let’s just give it the benefit of doubt and say 300 years was when it was really going good.
I just trip out on time scale.
The United States has been around for 250 years; I wonder what generalization we could place on the United States? I mean in the sense that the holy inquisition lasted 400 years or whatever. Somehow, though the “holy inquisition” may have been a institution of the Catholic Church for that long, I ponder just what effect it was having in day today life, and so much as we for sure can talk about all the various vicissitudes in particular occasions into the segments of probably even decades if not 100 years segments.
what strikes me in these type of scales is a certain kind of arrogance that goes into people talking about or asserting some grand truths of how the world is, or the world should be, or what humanity is or how it should be.
I mean this in the sense that, say for example, the noble ideals around the United States. Even taken to a ridiculous extreme, to say that there are some larger truths at play around the ideals of the United States of America and its democracy, these ideals have at most been around for 250 years. sure, we could extrapolate and say they came out of this and that other time and whatever in the development of this idea and whatever. But there is some sort of ideal that goes into being “an American” however we wanna voice it, and whatever this ideal is it’s only been around for 250 years.
and here is the Spanish Inquisition molding ideas about the world and what it is to be human for 600 years.
and then we could even look at what we consider “culture” or “civilizations”.
The one I like to think about is ancient Egypt. Ancient Egypt was going strong for something like 1500 years, and actually I think like 3000 years. I’m asking just what is the ideal of the United States at 250 years old compared to a civilization that can be generalized into 3000 years? ￼￼
and if we’re talking about the Spanish Inquisition, the medieval period was going on for something like 400 years as well or 500 years whatever it is.
all I’m really saying is that it smells to me of arrogance of the individual human beings, or even a group of people existing at any time. It just strikes me the arrogance that exudes from peoples ideas of righteousness.
also, if we can even conceptualize into ourselves, which is to say, if I am even able to conceptualize what being an American is, I’m really only drawing from at most 250 years of being human.
how ridiculous It sounds! The claim that the United States or being an American has any sort of substance that could be compared to a civilization, say, that lasted 2000 years.
never mind that any sort of compendium or lineage of ideas that might be grouped together to be called some sort of era, or to be titled to some certain name, is so filled with innumerable vectors of how it could have come to be the case, or why it should be, or the influences involved, or the particularity’s which bring about its conceptual shape, and then all the exceptions that go into the argument about how those conceptual balloons really hold no water at all….
The sheer vastness of time just boggles me. And when I compare various institutions to this vast network of insoluble era, I just find a tremendous humility.
I look out into my present world, and I can’t help but think how stupidly filled with themselves people really are.
i’m not disillusioned; I’m just amazed.xx
Just read the reposted link. An epoch of idiocy, a species of utter small minded dunces.
…and kinda ironic.c
People simply will not understand. Even then…
Imagine a group of musicians, a band, who did everything possible to not be famous and be rich.
They changed their name every show so they would not make a name for themselves.
They made no records.
They were well known in the music community and even wrote songs, actually gave songs to people who did become famous, songs some of which made a lot of money and became well known, some still well known today. They never asked those people for royalties or recognition again still to this day.
One could say that they trusted existence.
This group played extensively around the West Coast of the United States. Frequented Burning Man before it was a thing. They were regular installments at “desert parties” in the Western States through out the 90’s. And the “Tunnel Parties” in the mountains above Los Angeles. Raves and experimental sound festivals and “be-outs”.
They were specifically anti-establishment, but not anti-human or anti-actuality. In fact, with such integrity this group went about their business, so genuine and authentic thier music resonated with people, by 1996 they has become known as the band that one simply knew about, but no one wanted to ruin. A sort of purity left in the world that everyone who knew wanted to keep. To see and hear and experience the group and thier music was pure word of mouth and happenstance.
It is simply unbelievable to most people, and I think that was the point: give people something they could absolutely not believe and they would thus know that something legitimate actually existed.
Most people ask: Why would anyone do that? Why would anyone try not to make money and not be famous? To make an effort in the opposite direction, not simply “letting it be” in the all too typical happy-ending story where then one becomes famous and everyone loves them. Rather, to purposefully make an effort to not have that happen? Simply inconceivable.
And yet the most legitimate confirmation that capitalism is not necessary for the future same results to occur, minus all the bullshit identity crisis and “personal transformations” that we, again, know all too well is undefeatably and undeniably human.
To have some thing distinctly true that exists authentically, that arises and occurs despite all the modern tropes.
People simply cannot conceive of a group of people, a music group succeeding — for all purposes of artistic integrity and popularity– without making money or seeking commercial fame for the simple reason which reflects a certain orientation upon the world which was being challenged then. A kind of challenge which is mostly beyond anyone nowadays, even as it was just barely hanging on 30 years ago, a residue of philosophical motifs. ￼
And it became, like, this weird situation, this unbelievable situation that began to happen in so many places all around the west, a sort of precipitate from the 60’s. And a code, of sorts, came out of it. It really was miraculous and gave us faith in the world, again, in a weird way.
Of course we think of the book “fight club”, and the quote that comes out of the book,
The first rule of fight club is that you don’t talk about fight club.
The thing is, is that this book drew upon something that was already occurring, and again the author used it to make a living from, as a writer would, as an artist should and would. But where that came from was something that was actually occurring — that shouldn’t be possible — that was kind of more authentic than the existential ‘bad faith’ way we all usually must eventually live anyway….
Because the thing was with this group￼￼￼￼￼￼ — that is, if you asked anyone about the group, anyone who knew, they would deny that it existed. Lol. It was the funniest thing! It was the weirdest thing! And they still do and will !!
that’s the true beauty of it, that it still lives on right on front of people’s eyes and ears.
It became like this unwritten code of this large group of people — an amazingly large group — that would show up at these various events. And maybe 4 out of 10 times, maybe 2 or 3 out of every 20 venues￼￼￼ …Around certain cities — even in the middle of nowhere– there would be a band that would show up with some stupid name and the people who knew, knew. And the beginning of the show would be like, maybe, a normal crowd for a Tuesday, but after the first few songs, the word would get out and the place would be jam-packed, people standing out on the sidewalk just mulling around, being part of the “be-out”.
And the people who didn’t know just thought it was pretty good and sometimes a little weird. But some would hear the songs, and they knew. And it was the best thing. And then later on you could hear them, a couple years later maybe, some famous band playing some of the songs in a different way slightly￼, commercialized, solidified, packaged. Think grunge and alternative mostly, but even some of the harder rock songs, even a few pop tunes, were written by this same group of people, unknown and working hard to remain so.
Listen to the old, and even newer, interviews with some of these famous rockers. You’ll hear it if you listen. Foo Fighters; Hole; the Mentors; Rage Against the Machine; Concrete Blonde; even No Doubt. And those were just the ones who’d been around from the beginning.
Well, there’s much more to be told. And maybe I’ll do that as we go on.
This is what the Covert Sound Philosophy was, and is. Except that CSP now has kind of just become kind of a nostalgia. A kind of beckoning back to what was, a real truth, a surety, a kind of good feeling that there is something legitimate in the world that we can hang onto without having it be a capitalist product￼.￼￼￼..or before it must become one.
— and with the full irony intact nowadays as CSP is making records.
Because it is a commercial sound product now for sure.￼ 🤘🏾🧑🏾🚀xxxx
The first rule was an unwritten rule. It was a rule that just came up out of necessity, out of an imperative toward legitimacy and authenticity.
With the deafening thunder of Napoleon’s canons filling the air at Jena, the romantic story goes that a middle-aged university professor and …
—– I have not reas Kojeve or Herder, so the following goes off of only
What we are seeing, what we are involve with, is the realization of what the human being is. The end of history as either a “happy” or “united” end is less the significant point than it marks or identifies a oarticular Kind of human being, one that sees itself in the context of either a “whole” of creatures that we call human, or one that understands that “human” defines a particular subset of this whole as to what is included and excluded in this “people” group.
Yes. The end of history may be about consumerism, but only in so much as there is an ideal effort which sees the whole through the exclusion. That is, “the whole” is allowed to be consumers, but it is only really about those who are indeed able to participate as this implied consumer. It is really only the people who do indeed prosper who are included in this ‘whole’. The rest are, by linguistic default, ‘not people’, they are something else that is excluded by the category itself, similar to trash that we deny by our consumerism. Think of recycling.
This secret ideological “ol’ in out, in out, know what I mean, know wheat I mean” motion of language is generally invisible to those people who are invested in the ‘truth’ of the linguistic category (think capitalism). The use of the idioms contained in every expression work to hide the ‘actual’ discursive functioning and reference which supports and justifies the user (subjectivity). Yet, it is not “those people” as much as it is indeed, ironically, all people who are included.
Hence, what we are really seeing now, what we are involve with, is the transition between ethical paradigms in how we deal with the whole through the part, and not so much how we include everyone or what that means. It is the investment of language “of the whole” which understands a modern perpetual ‘end’ in the various ways that we have seen argued over the past 200 years. We are seeing a renegotiation of the subject.
For, the more thoroughly we are invested in the topical use of language, the more we speak to ideology and its power to orient and fixate the subject in the world. Therefore, it is not so much “the content” of discourse that is significant to philosophy, as much as the significance lay and how we are oriented upon discourse and what it does. And this is to say that where the subject is not centered by ideology, but only uses ideology for its own subjective teleology, there we find the subject in a relationship of integrity with itself, for then it takes responsibility for the ideology which comes about through its own purpose. ￼￼
It is only there that we stumble upon the irony which traverse is the modern use of language to thereby be able to enact ones world consistently with ones form, for now we see that the very term that we understand as agency, the very power and force through which ideology subjects human beings, is just another enforcer of ideological placement by which the individual faces the paradox of choice.
For ultimately there is no choice to be made at every point, but only one choice which begins at every moment we use language. ￼ Yet less how will we use language, and more what is informing that use.
Another thing that I struggle with is the idea of having to refer to someone to gain validity or credence in what I might say.
Typically we refer to other authors of the modern era Or contemporary authors, because we are in the process of developing a kind of argumentative community, towards some sort of theoretical ground upon which we can implement some sort of activity that we all generally direct as a solution￼.￼
But the a epitome of reference is when we refer to ancient authors, other languages, for example and especially, Hebrew, Greek, and Latin.
What perplexes me is why I would need to refer what I’m saying to some originaria Greek term.
And I don’t necessarily mean this in the sense that it doesn’t help with the clarity that I am trying to communicate; I mean it in the sense of why don’t we refer even further back to what the Greek word might have its roots in?
And then also I don’t even mean to suggest that the people prior to the Greeks or prior to the Hebrews etc.. might have had a better way of putting things into terms.
What I mean is what is happening with me, and what is happening to the person that is reading what I’m writing? In so much is I might refer to Greek, say, or even it’s Proto languages, what is really striking me that I might route my discourse is in these Proto languages?
And I think the most basic question that I come to in this Perplexity of why, is do these Proto languages have a more substantial or original airy position with reference to what it is to be human or what it is we might be talking about in actuality?
Because I tend to think that this thing that’s going on inside of me, and I feel that is going on inside the reader, in so much as we both feel really great about being able to bring up these Greek, Latin, or Proto Greek or Proto Latin terms which mean something original, I guess, is that somehow when I do this I feel I’m getting more closer to some “natural” way that the human being actually should or actually does exist in the world￼.￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼￼
What do you think?￼
Great Plains Indian Law: Background
(If you don’t see videos come up, then Visit the site.)
I think this will be the last energy I spend on JP. The less energy given toward his name the better, I think. But one last thing…
I think we can have little more doubt that JP is supplying a new philosophical ground for Christianity; indeed, I might say that he is a theological philosopher. And in an even more honest light, that he is the example of what I call the Postmodern Religion: the manner that religion appears today, the way it behaves for the modern state.
We might wish to be carefully observant.
Peterson is not really understanding the philosophy that he sounds like he is. In particular, from what I’ve listened to of him, (which is about 4 hours all together) he is not really understanding the philosophy is poses to be, despite all his rhetoric, and in particular, the main antagonist of his position, Postmodernism. Specifically, he is taking general ideas of the subsequent postmodern distortions and stretched application and further misapplying them as he is indeed misunderstanding them. Yet, I am imagining that because he has a PhD and a nice suit, and can put sentences together about various abstract ideas to a certain sensibility, he then appears as though he is making sound judgements and assertions. In truth, though, it appears that he is overstepping his academic license in the name of the Postmodern privilege of subjective dishonesty, which he projects upon a straw man that he calls ‘Postmodernism’. He in indeed utilizing Postmodern methods of appropriating discourse for his own agenda, the exact theoretical method that he decries as belonging to his straw man Postmodernism. He is capitalizing upon his alienation from a theoretical space, and then using a rather “sewn-together” version of half-cognized meanings to assert the truth of his subjective power (white male) as though they indeed have valid theoretical bearings. As I said in my last post, this is a particularly postmodern (in the diminished sense that he uses and understands) maneuver.
This is why I am and have been beginning to elaborate upon the a kind of philosophical orientation which recognizes various types of philosophy. Peterson’s “type” of philosophy is one which demands that all conceptual paradigms must be able to be conceived by everyone who has a certain level of education. This coincides with his “absolutism” that seems to rise into everything he has to say; biological essentialism, nationalism, civilization, history –everything to him has an essential and eternal basis. I question this maxim for the exact reason that I am indicating here with Peterson: It is his inability and indeed insecurity around being an academic which does not allow him to admit nor even see that he is simply not comprehending the theoretical arena that he appropriates. Again; this is exactly the situation that the Postmodern authors warned us about; in particular, Jean-Francois Lyotard, who basically gave us the term postmodern, tells us that knowledge is no longer something that raises or falls upon its own merit, but indeed, knowledge is something that the experts prop up. Implicit in this description of our situation is that experts thus demand an equivocation of knowledge to the standards defined by the experts. Peterson, someone who has achieved the title of expert (PhD) does not have the (what one would figure accompanies advanced education, as much as it obviously does not) humility to view something he desires as outside of his conceptual register, because of the systemization of knowledge (technology).
We might look at who supports what he has to say. It appears that Nationalists, racists, white people, and hetero-normaitive Christians form the bulk of his supporters. If he is so concerned with people’s well-being, why does he decry government support for LBGTQ+ politically valid designations? Might we do well to look at what he considers “mental health” also? Reality and truth that he appears to promote likewise has little philosophical support beyond some sort of assumption of a common human who is civilized. And what history exactly is he drawing from to come to his conclusions about society and the human psyche? To me, it appears rather arbitrary and, to be frank, quite similar to the artistic latitude that Freud used for his speculations about the structure and history of the psyche, such as his infamous story of the progenitor. Also, I think it is kind of strange, like a psychoanalytical flashback to not-so-long-ago when homosexuality was officially listed in the DSM as a mental dysfunction., that Peterson advocates so liberally for the democratic tenet of free-speech, yet while also advocating that people have “responsibility” for their lives. It seems to me there is a therapeutic inconsistency somewhere in there. Let him be so free about the possibility that what he knows so surely could be wrong; let him take responsibility for the world and not just his world. hmm? Perhaps have some therapeutic care as a psychologist? Indeed, in my profession’s code of ethics as a counselor, and probably his as a psychologist, (maybe thats why I am not a psychologist: their ethics are a bit out dated maybe, but maybe not) it says that the psychologist shall not impose his or her biases upon the client. In my profession, I am not ethically nor legally allowed to impose my religious beliefs upon the client. If I do, I can lose my license. Likewise, if I am an atheist counseling a Christian, I must not treat the client as though they are stupid or something. And, if someone is Gay, trans or whatever, I am not to impose my sense of personal correctness, as Peterson’s “natural honesty for identity” which says that such people are being dishonest with themselves. If I do, then I can be sued and lose my license. Wow.
There are no free rides, nor simple ideological solutions — he even argues this himself !! (watch the video a few posts ago). It appears that he is advocating the very thing he argues against.
I think his intensions are in the spirit of helping people, which is good. But, when we notice how he draws from history to construct a sensible history — which, upon scrutiny, is filled with many philosophically inconsistent holes –we might want to reference a history somewhat recent to our knowledge, that of Nazi Germany.
Now, I do not mean to be alarmist. But it is well known that Hitler and his propaganda machine drew upon a distorted version of idealist philosophers such as Hegel and Nietzsche, and used this misappropriation of ideas with a particular analysis of history which might have made sense to many people of Northern Europe who were looking for some respite from the depression of the defeat from the First World War. Hitler and his minister of propaganda, Joseph Goebbels contrived a mash-up of Aryan, Nordic, and Christian myth, which served to unite the people of Germany under a kind of mass hysteria of national pride, all the while propping up straw men under pseudo-scientific “truth” who were identified responsible for the decline of the German Nation. Jews were made to be responsible mostly, along with their “degenerative democratic” news reporting, but all sorts of people who did not fit into the propped-up mythic ideal were seen to be less than human.
Now, of course, in the small of it, this is just another philosopher speaking his philosophical wares, so hey…
But we might want to learn from the past: so many people were taken for a ride and then found themselves in a terrible space of problem that they did not even know they were supporting.
Just be aware.
That said :
Part of the Two Routes is a suggestion that we admit that there is no common humanity, but that there is a humanity that needs such an ideal. I think perhaps Peterson is playing to this crowd. The issue , though, is to develop a philosophical understanding that understands this role, the responsibility Philosophy has to the actual truth of what humanity is by what it does: People need religion. And so the responsible thing seems to be to give it to them, but also to recognize that the religious ideas of “partial reasonings” are in the service of compassion for the common good, and less “true” about what is actually occurring. Less a patronizing, and more a recognition: most people simply do not wish to know, and to give them all the information sometimes just confuses people and makes life more difficult. I think it is possible Peterson is doing this, trying to supply a meaningful world to those who don’t want to really know, but without the awareness that this is what he is doing. We need people who are aware, not just in a power struggle for righteousness.